hello all:.
on a previous post i read in the past couple of days, someone asked if there was any other sites posting info on the mexico/malawi fiasco as told to us in the c of c book.
i can't find that post to see if anyone answered it, and i have looked at the few other sites like freeminds and watchtower observer for any info but couldn't find any.. does anyone know of any references, either here or at other sites, to this subject?.
Hello all:
On a previous post I read in the past couple of days, someone asked if there was any other sites posting info on the Mexico/Malawi fiasco as told to us in the C of C book. I can't find that post to see if anyone answered it, and I have looked at the few other sites like freeminds and watchtower observer for any info but couldn't find any.
Does anyone know of any references, either here or at other sites, to this subject?
Thanks for any help
Had Enough
hello, i've been lurking the board for quite sometime now and i have also read crisis of conscience.
my hubby and i stopped attending the meetings since december and had our first christmas in 6 years.
it was fun although the feelings of guilt are still within us.. we've been visited by the elders twice but we managed to keep them at bay.
To Englishman:
A calico cat is a beautifully coloured domestic cat. Ususally they are white with blotches of deep orange and black and usually are all female. I'd love to have one but my own cat would be too jealous.
Had Enough
hello, i've been lurking the board for quite sometime now and i have also read crisis of conscience.
my hubby and i stopped attending the meetings since december and had our first christmas in 6 years.
it was fun although the feelings of guilt are still within us.. we've been visited by the elders twice but we managed to keep them at bay.
Hello CC:
A warm welcome to you. You will find a wealth of friendship, encouragement and knowledge here as I have. I also started 'lurking' here for awhile before I had the courage to make my first post.
I too am in the same position of not going to meetings but can't reveal my identity because of family still "blinded". If I was one of those JWs you mentioned that come here to read about us, I'd be quite concerned of not only being found out, but of my own spirituality. How can anyone be proud of ignoring the GB's warnings to stay away from these sites and still consider themselve a true JW?
However, if any JW lurkers are here because they too have hidden doubts, and want some answers, I say "WELCOME" to you all. Here is where you'll find out the real facts and things the WTS has kept hidden for so long.
My world of JW'dum came to an end when I had serious doubts about the "spirit-guidance" of the GB when they kept flip-flopping back and forth on important issues. Then when I read C of C book, I was in shock for awhile. I'm now reading the "In Search of Christian Freedom" and have "Apocalypse Delayed" to read next.
I have so much I want to re-think and find what seems right to me.
As for the holidays?....like everyone says...the guilt passes when you see the foolishness in all we've been taught as "the word of God". I received my first "Mother's Day" cards and wishes this year, and what a warm and wonderful feeling it was from such a small gesture. To me it was a HUGE gesture of love.
Anyway...welcome again and enjoy. Looking forward to more from you.
Had Enough
well, here it is, the final lesson in our language course to prepare us for this weekend's sydney bbq.. how ya been goin'?.
there'll be time at the end of this lesson to review the full course.. today we're going to consider what to say to those experiencing emotional distress, or how to recognise it in someone you meet.. 1. the old man's shot through = my husband's left town.
2. can i bot a fag?
G’day Ozzie:
"How ya goin’ luv"? "What’s the latest goss"?
Glad to hear your BBQ is planning well. I’d love to "tart myself up" and hear the compliment "grouse lippy"
I’d love to say yes! to "wanna come to our piss-up?" and if you offered "wanna cuppa", I’d say “yes please, do you have Earl Grey?” And I'd be glad to "bring a plate", but I won’t be askin’ "Can I bot a fag?"
Now if you have any difficult people at your BBQ, just "don’t get your knickers in a knot" and I know if you tell me some wild story after the BBQ, well I promise I won’t say "don’t crap on".
But if you do go on and on about how bad it was, I may be tempted to tell you to "shut ya gob" but I promise I won’t tell you to "get stuffed bitch". Ooooh is my face red!!!
I’m here now ‘cuz I’ll be busy in the "arvo" and I want to "knock off" early today since it’s "poet’s day".
Now one last thing.....should I be concerned about Jang’s warning about "the snags, the bombers, the mozzies, and the local wog"?
I’ll say "Cheers" now and hope you all have a blast on Sunday!
Had Enough
(ps:do I pass?)
i don't know why i never spotted this before, but my daughter from my first marriage has just pointed out to me that her grandmother - my jw mother - has never ever contacted her since she was a child.
how would her grandmother respond if she - my daughter - made some contact?.
my first response was to say that i'm sure she would be delighted to hear from her, but then i got to wondering.
Hello Englishman:
How sad that your mother has had no contact with her granddaughter. I have a small granddaughter and cannot imagine not knowing her and having her run to meet me with a squeal and having her throw her arms around me and having little "grown-up chats" with her watching her busy little mind at work.
I know of no official JW rule that says your mother should shun her granddaughter. She can't say she is doing this because of your daughter's lifestyle because as you said, your mother has made no contact with her since she was a child.
The only thing I've ever heard from a speaker or from another JW is that we wouldn't want to have social association with our "worldly relatives" as in going on holidays together or regularly visiting etc. Bad association and all that you know. [8>]
But I have never heard anything official saying we should shun our "worldly relatives" all together as your mother has.
Had Enough
incredible tale of jaw-dropping, eye-popping dishonesty from the borg!.
my father, who continues to be in the borg, managed the construction of one of those 48-hour wonders several years ago.
just a few months later, someone had a "welcome to the neighborhood bonfire" um, using the new kh as the bonfire.. the new hall was, of course, insured and application was duly made for payment so that another soaring, magnificent testament to man's spiritual longing could be constructed.. well.
Hello all:
I, too, would like to know how you go about finding out who are the insurers and co-insurers of the KHs.
***And would someone know if these same procedures of the WTS being the co-insurer, are followed in Canada, and for that matter, all over the world?
As for the selling of the KH to another religious order, that same thing happened to us. We were told our KH was to be sold and we were to share a nearby hall and we were told that we were to vote on it that night and that actually it didn't matter what the vote showed, as it was "just a formality, the decision was already made."
That caused a real uproar and there are those who still sting from that "bitter pill" and the surrounding neighbours themselves found it difficult to understand why we would sell our KH to another religion. Even they could see the hypocrisy in that move.
To Francoise:
This is a very interesting situation and smacks loudly of more deceit and money-grubbing.
In order to relay this as an example of underhandedness of the WTS, I know that the ones in my family would only settle for exact facts and cities named. If it is possible to go further with your information, could you please tell us the city and/or cong. involved?
Thanks
Had Enough
yugoslavia bans import of jehovah's witnesses literature .
bbc monitoring service - united kingdom; may 22, 2001. .
text of report in english by belgrade-based radio b92 text web site on 22 may .
And as usual, the WTS will "fight to vindicate God's name" proving they are fulfilling their God-given commands.
If they lose, again it will be fulfilling Bible prophecy of "persecution for his name" and "increased persecution in the time of the end". [8>]
Whatever...they will treat it as a "win-win" situation. However, I still think their glory days are numbered...too many people out there with their eyes wide open.
Had Enough
for those who haven't seen this before: this applies to both cults and spiritually abusive systems.. the emotional pain of leaving a cult.
it hurts.
it hurts even more when it is.
Jang:
Yes I too have felt every single one of the things in your list!
I've expressed in several of my posts already how painful it is to find out you have believed a lie for so many years, been duped.I've been a JW all my life, my children are grown and I'm now a grandmother. I only just started learning the "real truth" last year.
When this happens, one certainly does feel:
hurt - that I've been betrayed, lied to for so, so many years.
crushed - that my whole foundation has crumbled..the "truth" is all I have ever known
confused - can I trust myself to be able to decifer what is truth now
lost - the rest of my family is still deeply entrenched
guilty - am I doing the right thing...is my mind playing tricks on me..am I even able to reason on my own without an index in front of me
angry - the better part of my life was spent missing out on things that now I see were not "evil"
At least the good thing that is happening now is that the burden I carried around on my shoulders, of never feeling good enough, never meeting quotas, standards, feeling guilty over not experiencing the joy I was supposed to feel....all these things are gone and my shoulders don't feel so weighed down now. And I truly am enjoying learning so many new things.
But like so many others, I still have the pain of knowing family is still closed-minded to anything that tarnishes their shiny WTS, and I still have the burden of their disapproval for my inactivity.
I guess I wonder why some here are able to not feel the pain as we describe and can have such a strong outlook about the whole experience.
Maybe family still as remaining active JWs is a big part of the pain...I don't know yet.
Had Enough
man it's good to be home, relaxed and de-stressing right now!
how many times today, i just wanted to say aaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhh!!!!
at my circuit's one-day assembly.
It's nice to see the responses you folks have made to this topic. I felt that if our Bethel branch was concerned enough to bring this out at an assembly, then perhaps there's more rumbling going on than we know.
I'm really glad to see the figures and graphs presented here as they help with the picture I'm seeing.
larc referred us to his thread where a "decline discussion" was a few months ago at:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?site=3&id=1768&page=1
I read many very interesting insights there.
One thought as to how the WTS will probably respond to a noticable decline was mentioned by waiting. She said
Growth rates go up: Look! That proves we're Jehovah's organization and people are fulfilling the prophecy about foreigners hanging onto the fringe of Jehovah's true followers to go worship with them.
Growth rates go down: Look! That proves we're Jehovah's organization because we fortold that the love of the greater number would cool off and the end would come. Well, the love is cooling off which proves the end is coming. Wait on Jehovah.
Yes it still amazes me that I, along with most others, never noticed the WTS's flip-flop answers. When there's an increase..."it's proof of God's holy spirit directing the work". When there's a decrease..."numbers aren't really important" or another one is that "God's doing a cleansing work weeding out the undesirables".
Those are such a typical responses from the "powers that be" so that no matter what happens, it'll just be "fulfilling the Bible prophecies" they have been telling us of. So they'll say "see, we're right again..God's directing this organization".
I wonder too, like Moxy said, if they might just stop publishing the figures in the WT of the annual report if the numbers keep declining. hmmmmmm?
Had Enough
for those of you who haven`t been following it,the wts is in a downward spiral here in japan.fs hours are down,memorial attendance.
is down,pioneers are down,studies are down,donations are down,number.
of congregations is down and the number of publishers continues to.
I believe you are right about why the emphasis is being put on "there are no rules" statements. (at first I wondered if Big Brother was watching over our sholders and seeing what the pulse was of those leaving, and was trying to 'fix' it)
I can understand the kind of 'blow up in your face' effect this is having in Japan and can see the borg just grasping at straws to find a happy medium for all.
This still affects me even though, in my mind, I have divorced myself from my attachment to the borg. As little as a few years ago I recall going to a couple of elders to discuss my son's da'ing and telling them that I believe whole-heartedly in the Bible and the org. as being the only true religion worshipping God, but I was having trouble reconciling my mind with my heart over the reasoning on the elders da'ing someone themselves, who just said he wanted to be left alone and no longer wanted to be known as a JW.
My point being, this org. was my foundation I built my whole life on. I knew nothing else. Now I can identify with those in Japan who see the org.changing things to suit the trends and wanting to keep their numbers up. Those ones who have been 20 to 40 years in the org. too must be seeing their foundations crumble beneath them.
I truly feel for the emptiness they must be feeling and hope they can too find their way here to make some sense of their lives.
Had Enough
